Audio transcript

Anouska Gammon

JOANNE KING: The dance team at the Arts Unit of the NSW Department of Education have produced this podcast as part of the 'Listen at The Arts Unit' series. This podcast is produced on Gadigal and Cadigal land of the Eora nation. We pay our respect to the Traditional Custodians of the land, with further acknowledgment of the many lands this podcast will be listened to across Australia.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander art, storytelling, music and dance, along with the people, hold the memories of Australia's traditions, culture and hopes. Let us also acknowledge any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders and people in our presence today who guide us with their wisdom.

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ANNOUNCER: Listen @ The Arts Unit.

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JOANNE KING: My name is Joanne King, and I am the dance performance officer at the Arts Unit for the NSW Department of Education. This episode, the hosts, Chloe and Emma, speak with NSW Public School's Senior State Dance Ensemble tutor, Anouska Gammon.

Anouska has had extensive experience and involvement in the performing arts industry for over 30 years. After completing a diploma at Brent Street Performing Arts and a double degree in Dance and Drama Education at the University of NSW, Anouska has continued to pursue her love for the performing arts through teaching and choreographing in various institutions throughout NSW.

After many years in Sydney, Anouska relocated to Byron Bay with her family, where she has co-founded and directs Bangalow Theatre Company and BANG! Academy of Performing Arts. Anouska currently lectures at Southern Cross University in performing arts education and hopes to share and inspire more creativity into the region. This is a chance to learn more about Anouska's involvement in the dance industry and her experience working with the NSW Public Schools State Dance Ensemble over the past 9 years. Thanks for tuning in.

CHLOE: Hi, my name is Chloe, and I'm from Wagga Wagga High School.

EMMA: Hi, my name is Emma, and I'm from Inverell High School. Welcome, today, Anouska, and thank you for being here for our podcast.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Thank you for having me.

CHLOE: So Anouska, at what age did you begin dance? And what styles did you learn growing up?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: I was 8 years old. I did a lot of ballet, jazz, tap, musical theatre, singing, drama. And so we were trained in all of the 3 sort of genres of the performing arts. And so growing up, we did lots of song and dance and musicals.

And it wasn't until I started studying dance at my own high school that I started really delving into more contemporary dance because that was what the dance subject was at high school. And then from then on, continued studying a lot of contemporary dance.

EMMA: That's really interesting because now when we do like HSC dance and study dance within our school, they've kept that alive. And they keep doing that. So yeah, that's really interesting.

CHLOE: Other than dance, what are your creative outlets?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Oh, I have so many. I write. So at the moment, I'm writing a play. I also direct theatre. So I'm also directing a play at the moment.

EMMA: Wow.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: And I've also recently written a musical, a full-scale original piece with 4 creative friends. And we have been performing it up around the Byron Shire, which is where we're from. But also, we took it down to Adelaide Fringe Festival. So for the first time in 17 years, I'm back out on stage, singing and dancing and acting, which is really exciting.

The other creative outlets I have are painting. I do lots of painting. Piano playing, so I still play the piano. And sometimes write my own music. And yeah, basically, my whole life is about being creative.

EMMA: What musical are you producing at the moment?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: It's called New Blood. And it sort of birthed out of COVID in a way. Our small town up near Byron Bay became really busy because a lot of people were moving out of the cities and wanting that lifestyle change. So our small town rapidly changed.

And so as locals, we began to see all of the newcomers coming in, the new blood. And so we thought, how interesting. We've got people who have been in this town forever, lots of generational farmers and families been there forever. And then a lot of new blood coming into town, and whether or not everyone's wanting the change, happy for change, needing the change.

So it looks at 5 different characters and their journeys through that. Some of those characters are new blood. And we also sort of jump into other characters of the town, so people that work at the post office and people that go to the pub. And so it's like a snapshot of regional towns and how much they've changed.

EMMA: Yeah, that's really interesting. Thank you. What inspired you to become a teacher, tutor, and choreographer within performing arts?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Oh, so my dad was a teacher. He was the head of science at my high school. And I could always see the love that he had for sharing his own knowledge with young people and the influence that he had. He was a brilliant man and a really well-respected in our community.

I also was very lucky to have an amazing dance teacher up at Kingscliff High School, Robyn Ludeke who was a bit like a mentor. She took me through both my teaching pracs. And she was also really instrumental in creating lots of opportunity for young people.

So when I was going through, she created a touring group called Impact. And we would tour up and down the north coast of NSW with other students who were musicians or vocalists or other dancers like myself. And we'd create a whole work. And so we'd take the work up and down and tour it. And that was a really great experience.

So I think we were really lucky. I was really lucky. We had a very strong dance culture already happening at the high school. And a lot of the influences coming back into the teaching realm were from that amazing time and being, also, a regional kid. I did grow up in a in a small community away from cities, always really keen to have opportunity. And I think this state ensemble that we do is perfect for regional kids just like I was.

EMMA: Yeah.

CHLOE: Yeah, that's so lovely to know. I very much relate to your connection with your dance teacher, as my teacher, Miss Fisher, is amazing. And she's really beautiful. And it really makes your experience with dance in a regional place so different to what it would be if you were living in a big city. And it makes everything so worthwhile.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, that's lovely, that sense of connection. And you're inspired, obviously, by her. That's wonderful.

CHLOE: Yeah.

EMMA: Yeah, teachers make a huge difference with dance.

CHLOE: It's amazing.

EMMA: Having you as a state teacher is so inspiring, knowing all the different things you've done and how many different creative outlets you have. It's truly something that I inspire to do and be like.

CHLOE: Who have you worked with within the dance industry that has influenced you and your perspective of dance as an art form?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: When I was studying at Uni of NSW in our dance and education degree, I was lucky enough to be taught by Sue Healey for 2 out of my 4 years. She was really heavily involved in the course. And she would come in and almost do repertoires of her work that she was working on with us. And so she would use our group as a bit of a test tube, experimental space for what she was incubating for her own practice, which was really wonderful.

I was really inspired by her because, up until then, I'd done a lot of commercial dance. I'd done lots of jazz. I went to Brent Street for the year and studied the full-term course there. Did lots of singing and dancing and acting. And it was very much for the entertainment value.

And it wasn't until someone like Sue Healey was in front of you, and I think they'd been performing a work for 3 or 4 months. And then she came back into the space, and she was reworking this piece that they'd been performing. And it just sort of clicked with me, that that's amazing. I don't know, that idea of process and that idea of creative process for her hadn't finished with the performance.

And I really admired that in her. Being an artist isn't easy. You actually really need to enjoy that creative process. You have to acknowledge it. You have to appreciate it and respect it, and also acknowledge that even if the piece is up on stage, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's complete. Things can always grow and shift and adapt.

EMMA: So as someone who attended UNSW studying dance education, would you also recommend this course for inspiring artists to advance their dance career or anything that they want to do within the performing arts?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, look, the course has really changed since I was there. And I really suggest tertiary study in any tertiary institution in Australia if you really want to pursue. One of the best things with our Uni course was that we were a group, and a great group. We were very lucky to have each other. We're still very close friends.

And this is going back 17 years now, we graduated, which is a long time. But we're still very close. And we always sort of catch up when we're in the same space together. And sometimes our catch-ups are at State Festival, which is why it's lovely for me to come down and be a part of this, too.

But I think anything like that where you're learning day-to-day with a group of people, and you're going through something like that together, and you can really find that idea of trust and understanding of the art form, and actually, go really deep into the art form. So you really gain that appreciation. And you're in that sort of comfort of trust and support with others who are really like-minded. And I think that's-- what a treat to be able to have that time and space. So the course that I did study at Uni of NSW no longer exists.

CHLOE: So Anouska, while you were in high school, did you complete the HSC dance course?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yes, I did. This is going back quite a while. I feel like the course has really changed, being on the other side as a teacher and seeing how much it's changed, even in the last 10 years. Back when I did it, our interviews were really different. We were sort of asked one question. We got to go to a desk and write down our response for, I don't know, 5 minutes or something.

CHLOE: That's really different. Wow.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, and then we would have to read our response. And there was no other sort of probing questions. But our response would have to go for the 8 minutes or however long we were meant to talk for. So yeah, it wasn't a conversation. It was different.

Yeah. I don't know if it's more challenging or less. I think sometimes the conversation is really important, actually, because you can hopefully steer it in the direction that you want them to be. You can offer good examples and solid sort of answers to the questions. But it can sometimes go in a different direction. I think that's quite daunting for young people.

EMMA: Yeah.

CHLOE: For sure. You can definitely make the questions your own. And if you hint towards something, they might ask you a question that you know that you have studied or worked on.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yes.

CHLOE: It's very helpful in that now, it's more of a conversation rather than like a test, as you said. Out of performance, composition and appreciation, what was your favourite? And which one did you major in?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Composition. Yeah, absolutely loved it. I lived and breathed in that dance studio. Before doing HSC, dance and music were my 2 major subjects. And all the other subjects at school sort of, I don't know, whittled away into the background and were quite foggy and blurry.

But I was a singer. So I loved singing. I did lots of singing at high school. And also, obviously, the dance. And yeah, leading up to HSC, I think I was in the studio every morning choreographing, lunchtimes, recesses, like, I could not get enough of it. And I did manage to do quite well.

But I was always pushing myself. I always wanted to make original movement. From the day that I was like, you can create your own thing, I knew that I really wanted to try and push myself into not doing movements that I'd been taught before. I was really hungry to create original movement.

CHLOE: Yeah, as someone myself, who struggles with composition, what would you say to someone who needs a bit of assistance when it comes to creating organic movement and making something your own?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah. Great question. It's about just having the confidence in yourself that it's all in there. I know my process. And still, to this day, I need to be quiet in a space by myself to start even, not even just to start moving, but to start delving into an idea, researching an idea, I need time and space without any distraction.

So for me, that's really important. I can't really choreograph with other people around me. It's a very private practice. And it always has been. So it's almost been my space.

And I guess there are tools that can sort of help start ideas of original movement. One of the tools is my cube, my alphabet cube, which is my kinesphere. And I basically draw up a cube. And I put letters of the alphabet all around this cube. So every corner has a different letter. Every line between each corner has a different letter. Every middle of the space of the cube.

And you put your body in the middle of the cube. So it's your kinesphere. It's the space around you. And then you spell words with different body parts. So I'll assign the letter A to my right elbow. And I'll assign the letter B to my left big toe. And I will then spell words. And I'll have to get those body parts into those positions in my kinesphere cube.

So sometimes I'll spell my concept. And that could be where I start. And that sort of gets you right out of moving how you usually comfortably move and more forcing into a different way of moving.

EMMA: Yeah, that's definitely something that we should try.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, I highly recommend it.

EMMA: That's awesome. Yeah, coming into dance, Year 12 next year, I think that will really help with composition--

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, do it.

EMMA: --for sure.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah. It's always been a great way to start. And then you might go, oh, those 3 movements go really well together. It's interesting. It works with my concept well. So then you'll start building your movement vocabulary for the work using that, rather than just rehashing known movements constantly. Yeah.

EMMA: Wow, amazing. Thank you so much.

CHLOE: Awesome. All righty. As a tutor for both North Coast and NSW state dance ensembles, what would the benefits be for students who are interested in partaking in these?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, I think anyone who lives regionally, especially young people, especially coming out of COVID, there's never been a bigger need to feel connection and to feel like you are connected to something greater than what is existing in small regional towns, especially if you are restricted in terms of space or restricted in terms of people coming to your town to do workshops or anything like that. A lot of the time, doing programs like this, you are exposing yourself to so many wonderful new experiences, new choreographers, new ways to move, new ideas, new-- go to the theatre while you're here. See more art. Go to an art gallery. So you can expose yourself to lots of different creative outlets.

And I think also coming together with other regional students, there's something that you all understand with each other, which is the fact that you see each other. And this is probably a big, broad brush stroke. But I'm a huge believer in country people having a great sense of connection.

I walk down my main street, and everyone knows everyone. And that's what I love about it. And unfortunately, cities don't really have that sense of connection. Some parts might. But I think we're really lucky in that sense.

And so I think students come, and they might be a little bit more open and a bit more willing to make connections with other people. And so I've always realised doing these state ensembles that even though a lot of students are coming and the only person that they know from their small area, that they come and they're open to making new connections. And the connections that they make are ongoing, and they're something that they can take forward with them and build from.

Yeah, I think they're really important. And I really think the Far North Coast regional stuff has recently just started this year, which is really exciting. But I can already feel this momentum for those kids. They can see that there's other things that they're going to be connected to. They're going to meet other people. They're going to be part of something that's bigger than what they're used to.

And I think that's really healthy practice because they'll bring energy and difference to things as well. But what they take from the experience will also be-- and new ideas, new perspectives. So, yeah.

CHLOE: One thing that I've sort of experienced while being here is the difference between regional kids and people who have access to facilities like Sydney Dance Company, for example, on a weekly basis, and kids who have to travel far to come here. It's a very life-- not life-changing, but it really alters your perspective of the opportunities you have as a regional kid. And people like you give us the opportunity to create and have that space to keep on going within our dance.

EMMA: Yeah.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah.

CHLOE: Yeah.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: It's so important, right? Because you need to--

CHLOE: 100%.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah. And I think you have to be hungry for it to keep on going.

EMMA: For sure.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: But I do feel like what you take back with you is, hopefully, this cup full of ideas and being inspired to continue, you know?

EMMA: Yeah, absolutely. This year and last, I've been doing state. And last year, amazing. This year, amazing. And it's different, again, because I've had 2 different tutors now. And I just love the different points of view.

And the girls that I've met are relationships that I'll keep for life. I've got them on social media. We come back each year and we see each other. It's amazing. I really enjoy it.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah, it's like a family.

EMMA: Yeah, absolutely.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Yeah.

EMMA: There's nothing stronger than a dance family with girls, guys, it's great. It's amazing.

CHLOE: And when we're all here for the same thing, it just creates a very strong group of people. And I just love being here. Anouska, if you were a dance move, what would you be?

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Oh, that's a great question, Chloe. I think, look, I've always loved to-- it would be something grounded, I would have to say. It could be a plié in second. Is that a little bit too-- not enough movement?

CHLOE: No, not at all. I think that's perfect.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Is it?

CHLOE: Yeah.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: I'm trying to rack my head of all the millions of dance moves. But I do like the idea of travelling through plié and moving through plié, and definitely feeling grounded, with bare feet, people. No socks. Yes.

EMMA: We are a big fan of socks here.

Wow, that was something I didn't actually think I'd experience being at state. I put my hand up, because I don't usually say yes to things that don't involve just physical movement. So I thought, I'll try something new. And I'm glad I did because this was-- this was inspiring. I really feel like I've taken something away from this. And knowing where you've come from, what you've done, and how you've done it, it's really good, because I feel like I have a chance being a rural student that I can go somewhere with what I want to do and what I love to do.

So I really appreciate this. Thank you very much for joining us on this podcast.

CHLOE: Thank you, Anouska.

ANOUSKA GAMMON: Oh, thank you, girls. Keep creating.

JOANNE KING: Thanks for tuning in to Listen @ The Arts Unit, our series introducing the 2023 NSW Public Schools Dance Ensemble tutors.

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ANNOUNCER: For more information on our programs, explore our website at artsunit.nsw.edu.au.

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