Audio transcript

Between the bookshelves – 1. Yvette Poshoglian

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JADE ARNOLD: The Arts Unit recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples and storytellers of this place, now known as Australia. We are grateful for the continuing care of Country, waterways and skies where we listen, read and learn.

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You're listening to 'Between the bookshelves', the official podcast of the NSW Premier's Reading Challenge. I'm your host, Jade Arnold, the Premier's Program Officer, Reading and Spelling, at the Arts Unit.

Join me as I chat with children's and young adult authors and other experts in education and children's fiction as we talk about the books and the strategies that may spark or reignite a love of reading.

Let's dive in!

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Welcome to episode 1 of 'Between the bookshelves'. I'm joined today by a very special guest, Yvette Poshoglian. Yvette is the bestselling author of over 50 books for children and young readers, including the 'Ella and Olivia' series, the 'Puppy Diary' books, 'Frankie Fox, Girl Spy' stories, 'My Australian Story: Escape from Cockatoo Island' and 'Dear Greta'. Yvette started her career as an English teacher in South West Sydney and was the Premier's Reading Challenge officer from 2015 to 2016. She now consults on educational projects and works with the Technology 4 Learning team on projects like 'Everyone's an Author'.

Yvette, thank you so much for joining me for our very first episode. How are you today?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Oh, I'm chuffed to be here, Jade. Thank you for having me. First guest; I feel very special.

JADE ARNOLD: I couldn't imagine asking anyone else, so thank you for being available for this. So, Yvette, as you would know, the NSW Premier's Reading Challenge, or the PRC, as we both like to call it, is all about being able to connect children and young adults with stories that they'll fall in love with. One of the ways that we do this is by carefully curating the PRC booklists so that PRC coordinators, who are often teacher librarians or classroom teachers, can feel confident selecting a book for their school library or recommending it to a student.

Having said that, we know that there are thousands of books on the PRC booklists, and we know that all students have really different reading tastes and preferences, so it can be super overwhelming to try and match one of the PRC books with a student. With that in mind, a big part of these podcasts is going to focus on a 'between the bookshelves' pitch, which essentially is an elevator pitch for teacher librarians or PRC coordinators that they can then use to make recommending a title for a student's next read a little bit easier.

Imagine, if you will, a student is standing between the bookshelves in their school, their local library or their bookshop, and they're in the P section, and they see your titles there on the shelves. Maybe they've got that little PRC sticker on the spine. And your job is to help them decide if they want to take your book home.

So, with that in mind, can you give us the 'between the bookshelves' pitch for 'Dear Greta', which features on the 5 to 6 PRC booklist, and tell us what this book is about and what type of reader you think would really enjoy it?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Awesome. Thanks, Jade. What a privilege to be able to pitch a book to the PRC coordinators and to the students. That's just a dream come true. 'Dear Greta' is really a book for ages 8-plus, so I would say readers who are in Year 3 and up.

Our main character, Alice, is in Year 6. I think Year 6 is such a pivotal, cool time for a reader, a student in our public schools. And I just actually really wrote it for a student who is starting to think a little bit about the world around them. They're thinking about what power they might have or what little power they might have.

And it's essentially a story about realising that you, even as one person, can make a change for the better. And the main character, Alice, doesn't really see this in herself at the beginning of the book. But through getting to know not only the people in her class and some of the people she doesn't love in her class and having to work with them, as well as also being forced into some weird situations at home, including her sister, who she hates, things actually start to change. And Year 6 actually ends up being quite a different year to what she started out thinking it would be.

So, it's got lots of ideas jammed into this book, but it also celebrates the power of librarians, because Alice's librarian is an amazing person in her life and really helps her find not only the impetus to write to Greta Thunberg, which is the basis for the book, but also to read a little bit more broadly, maybe think about things in a different way and actually get to start to understand what activism could look like in today's world.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah, absolutely. I loved the librarian character in this book, unsurprisingly, being a teacher librarian myself, and I'm sure many other TLs out there would resonate with that.

One of the central messages of this book was, as you said, empowering students that they have the ability to make positive changes for good. And it doesn't just have to be on a global scale, like someone like Greta Thunberg. In 'Dear Greta', Alice manages to find a way to bring her school's Harmony Day celebrations online and even manages to draw attention to the plight of endangered frogs on live television.

So, what was the motivation behind including this message?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: It's such an interesting time to be a young person. You've got more options than ever before to actually have a voice, and even adults know that they have these options now. But I think kids are really embracing new technologies and new publishing platforms. It doesn't necessarily have to be social media but actually understanding that their words can have power and that their actions can have power.

So, that was actually one of the underlying things. And that obviously, Greta Thunberg is just such an incredible figure that we've lived in the past 10 years to watch her literally grow up from being a teenager who had something to say and turning that into a worldwide movement for climate change activism and seeing that young people can have positions at the table to make change. I think her platform is incredible. She certainly didn't start out that way, but she had something to say. She said it through a simple sign and going on strike.

And even that massive approach that Greta took, I think actually is an incredible driver for young people to actually see that even small changes that they make in their own little world can have a big impact as well. And that's what my main character actually discovers is that through doing a project that she actually really doesn't want to do and was late to class for-- and she gets Greta Thunberg. She doesn't even know who she is.

It actually starts to make her really think about the world around her and ask questions that maybe she hadn't asked before about what's possible in her world and also what might need changing or fixing. And yes, Harmony Day is a backdrop, but also endangered wildlife is also part of that. But also understanding her family, especially her dad, because her dad actually has a really interesting past as well.

JADE ARNOLD: Yes, he does. It's such an interesting journey and very inspiring journey that Alice goes on. And I really hope that students who read that can maybe see part of that reflected in their own lives and have a bit of motivation to do something good in their world, even if it's something really small.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yeah, definitely.

JADE ARNOLD: Alice faces a myriad of challenges in 'Dear Greta', one of which is when her Armenian grandmother comes to stay with her family to recover from a hospital stay. Alice loses her bedroom and her trackpants, of all things, to her grandmother, and she's exiled to the sunroom on an airbed, and is forced to endure salad after salad after salad from her grandma. Despite this, Alice comes to appreciate her presence and even misses her once she moves back out.

What was the inspiration for this? Was there a personal connection in your own life that brought the grandmother character to life?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Jade, you haven't lived till you've had an Armenian grandmother.

[laughter]

JADE ARNOLD: And a couple of salads?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yeah. Armenians are crazy about salad. They love vegetables in all their forms, especially with lots of olive oil. So, my grandmother, Nene, who is also called Nene in this book, has a very special bond with Alice that Alice doesn't really realise exists until Nene actually comes to live and takes not only her bedroom, but her wardrobe, and takes over her life.

And Alice also realises that Nene actually is quite cool. She's got her own friends. She FaceTimes them from all over the world. They're all living in different parts of the world. They're part of an Armenian diaspora that live all over the world-- and very similar to my grandmother.

In my own childhood, my Armenian grandmother didn't speak a lot of English, and I didn't speak a lot of Armenian, but somehow, we had a great relationship. And even though it was quite a number of years between us, we always could make ourselves understood to each other. And we had a very close bond, just the same as I had with my other grandmother. And so, I really wanted to explore this idea that being forced out of her comfort zone, Alice is actually put in a completely new place to really try and work things out.

And at home, which is normally our safe space, our bedrooms are our favourite place. If we manage to have our own bedroom, that's an amazing thing. But she's pushed out of her bedroom by Nene. And also, her sister is also just a thorn in her side. She's a constant thorn in her side. She's irritating, she's bossy, and they just do not understand each other. But they all kind of have to get along.

And what Alice doesn't realise is that Annie, her sister, is actually going to become one of her biggest helps and biggest supports. And that's also really cool, because sister relationships can be challenging and interesting and also the most rewarding ones you can have if you're lucky enough to have a sister. So, yes, there's lots of personal things, and it's definitely my most personal book because the character is Armenian Australian, just like me. And when I was growing up, there were really not many stories written by people with surnames that looked like mine and characters that reminded me of me.

And also, friendship circles, and my friendship circles at school, everybody came from a different culture, and I really wanted to celebrate that. And all the classrooms that I taught in, my students came from such interesting parts of the world. And when I taught in South West Sydney, I got to learn a lot about different cultures, Pasifika cultures, and I really wanted to include those students and their stories in this book as well.

So, there's a lot to cover, but it is a very personal book. But I've just got to say, I'm definitely not as cool and brave as Alice. And that's why you're a writer, because you can actually make these people and these characters come to life in ways that you just can't do it for yourself. So, it is a very personal book, you're absolutely right.

JADE ARNOLD: It's so lovely to see a book that gives students the chance to see themselves represented in literature, and then also other students to see a window into other people's lives and to really value the diversity that is in Australian culture. And to have that lovely little backdrop of Harmony Day just meshes it all together really beautifully. So, it's a wonderful story with wonderful heart in it.

One of Alice's friends, Anh, is battling with health issues that make it hard for her to attend school a lot of the time. But luckily for Anh, she's able to use a telepresence robot, which is a small robot with an iPad screen that she can drive around her school so she can not only attend her classes but also spend time with her friends during break time and socialise, which I thought was super cool.

Was this inspired by any real-world stories of telepresence robot use in NSW schools or through your work in the Technology 4 Learning team?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yeah, look, both. Actually, where I'm currently working, I work in a team called Tech Enablement. Our team is called Technology 4 Learning, and I had the chance to work with some incredibly cool, innovative gurus who have been working on new technologies going into our schools. And we're working with incredible teachers who are trialling new things in schools.

And one of these things-- there are many of them now in our NSW public schools called telepresence robots. And they're basically an iPad on wheels that can be manoeuvred by somebody who might be in bed or is not at school or is at home or working from a different part, going to school in a different way. And these robots are really changing things for people who can't be at school.

And what is even cooler about it is that on the other side of the coin, when everybody else is at school, they get a chance to actually really understand the role of the robot. And that they don't actually respond to the robot like it's a piece of equipment. It's actually that person on the screen. Their face is there. And it's just been used in some incredible circumstances, and it gives students who can't make it to school some real freedom to attend school, still have their friends, still go to class, literally wheel down the corridor.

And I just think it's an amazing innovation, and I hope to see a lot more of that happening in our schools. And yeah, there's some amazing things happening out there. And I really wanted to celebrate some of the technology and the support that we know is happening in our schools, particularly for Anh, because she can't get to school. And also, just one of the other side benefits of being an author is Anh is one of my best friends at work. And so, I asked her if it was OK if I could call that character Anh. And she of course said yes.

JADE ARNOLD: Of course. Who wouldn't want a character named after them in a book?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yeah, it's a nice thing to be able to do.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah, for sure. And I just loved how the idea of that technology robot-- as a teacher, your first thought is, 'Like, OK, well, we'll have something over Teams or Zoom' or something like that. But then you're just getting the class content, and those students miss out on those social moments with their friends, and they become really isolated, and school becomes just about learning. And they miss all of those informal opportunities for learning and their interactions for socialisation. And yeah, it just makes it seem so much more about the whole student as opposed to just attending classes.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yeah, it is. It's about the whole school experience. And that's why what happens to Anh's robot in the book that happens through a terrible accident at school that Alice just feels absolutely sick about-- even though something terrible happens, it is a way for them to both, really-- Alice to really examine what friendship means and how she can maybe be a better friend or have a good conversation with her friend about her life and where she's at. And actually, it's OK, in the end. It actually was a chance, really, to chat about things. And sometimes that can be the best thing to do-- sometimes the hardest thing to do, but sometimes the best.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah. Before we move on to talking about your other books, let's return to our 'between the bookshelves' chat. Let's say that same young reader is standing between the bookshelves, and they've just devoured 'Dear Greta' and is back looking for their next read. Maybe they're after that title that will inspire them to act with courage for positive change, something that focuses on the environment or something that's written in that similar letter style. What book would you suggest that they try next?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: So, there's a few that spring to mind, Jade. There's a couple of new Australian titles that I want to recommend. The first one is called 'The Kindness Project', and it's by the wonderful Deb Abela, who has had a long-standing relationship with the PRC and is just one of the most wonderful people you could see in action talking about books. And this is a really positive, powerful book about how to make change and how to do things together. I thought it was a really special book.

I also really want to recommend a really fun book by Nat Amoore called 'The Power of Positive Pranking'. It's a really fun romp and set in schoolyards that seem really familiar. And again, it's about making positive change in a really fun way, in the way only Nat can do.

And then I've been thinking a lot about some of my favourite books that are maybe written in a letter format, which I will say was a very hard way to write a narrative. Great idea at first, but then once you have to do it, it can be very hard to hold on to that. And I started to think about some books that really had a big impact on me.

And it's not exactly the same, but I would say even reading 'The Diary of a Young Girl' by Anne Frank, which is a diary format book, which is obviously a work of non-fiction, is a very inspirational book that is very timely, and we should be reading. And lots of readers would know that book. And that book still has a powerful hold on me many, many years later.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah. Just a side note-- all the books that we talk about during this podcast will be mentioned in the show notes. So, if you want to find them or figure out what PRC booklist they're on, if they are on a PRC booklist, make sure you check out our show notes.

Next, I'd like to ask you about 'Escape from Cockatoo Island' which also features on the 5 to 6 booklist and is part of the 'My Australian Story' series. Can you give us the 'between the bookshelves' pitch for this story?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: 'Escape from Cockatoo Island' was an obsession of mine to write and research, and it's still one of my favourite things to talk about because it's such a fascinating backdrop for a coming-of-age story, almost similar to the same age group of 'Dear Greta', in that my main character, Olivia, is 11 years old in the year 1879. And this was a really interesting time in Sydney. And a particularly terrible place to be in Sydney at that time was on Cockatoo Island, and it's a story that grabbed me and wouldn't let me go.

I had no intentions of setting out to write a historical novel, but it's actually a look at what was happening to young girls in our society at that time who were locked away for no good reason, apart from the fact that they were considered not very useful to the colony, and their stories-- and actually trying to present some hope that they did get off Cockatoo Island. So, this is very much a colonial story. It's a very particular time in Australian history, in a place that was very remote.

Even though Cockatoo Island, which is in the middle of Sydney Harbour, is actually quite close to the coasts and the other harbour foreshores, it could have just been in the middle of absolutely nowhere because they put kids on this island-- they put adults as well on this island and other prisoners. And they basically just tried to forget that they were there. So, this is a story about agency for young girls and the importance of us understanding what happened to young women in those days and how we must make sure that we never let that happen again.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah, absolutely. As we've mentioned, 'Escape from Cockatoo Island' is part of the 'My Australian Story' series. This series currently consists of 34 titles, which are all written by different authors, and they focus on different parts of Australian history after British arrival in 1788.

How do you, as an author, come to write for a series like this? And is it a case of you approaching the publisher, or does the publisher approach you?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Well, I have a very interesting past because before I became a teacher, I actually worked in children's book publishing. And I actually worked for the publisher Scholastic. And so, I had been reading many of these books over the years as they've been published. And Dr Anita Heiss had one. There was one about the bombing of Darwin. There were many things, actually, in my knowledge of Australian history that I didn't know about.

And I read many of these books in this series, which spanned many, many aspects of Australian history. And essentially, I never set out to write one of these books. But what ended up happening was I was actually kayaking. I'm a mad keen kayaker, going across Sydney Harbour every Saturday morning in this very ordinary plastic canoe, which was definitely not built for harbour rowing. But I just had this passion for it.

And one morning, I actually went too far, and I ended up out in the middle of Wareamah which is actually the Aboriginal name for these waters. And it's where the Parramatta River joins the Lane Cove River in the middle of Sydney Harbour and where Cockatoo Island is. And it was actually before the island was open to the public, so that when I got there, it was a kind of desolate place. It still is if you've been there. It's a very unusual place, full of slipways for boat building and old colonial buildings and sheer rock faces and vegetation and a very unusual sandstone quadrangle with these incredible convict-built outhouses in the middle of this island at one end.

And for some reason, I was drawn upwards to this quadrangle area. And I soon found this one particular feature which had the word Biloela on it. And I did not even how to pronounce that word for a long time. I called it 'Bill-oh-la'. I actually had never heard the word until I started doing some research.

Anyway, I knew from the moment I set foot on the island there was something to tell here. There was something to research. There was something to find out what had happened here. So, in a way, I think the story found me. It wasn't any other way that it happened than that.

And then I went and literally got the energy back to paddle back home, got back in my kayak, went back home, started looking into what had happened on Cockatoo Island. There are many, many layers of history on Cockatoo Island. And I just felt very convinced there was a story to tell.

And the story that I wanted to tell was about the Biloela Industrial and Girls Reformatory School, which was established in the late 19th century. And essentially, it was something that they trialled with orphans and young wayward women, as they were called. Women they didn't know what-- girls, they weren't women always.

They didn't know what to do with them, and they put them in this place. And they made them live in very harsh conditions and live among each other, and it was not a great idea. So, the setting was there. It's a very unusual place, yet right in the middle of the city. Yet people didn't really know about it. And that's the story that took hold.

And I think it must have been a few weeks later, I rang the publisher. And I said, 'There's a story here. Do you want to come out for a visit?' And at the time, I think there was one ferry that used to go there. And they came out, and she's like, 'I feel tingles running up my spine.' And that's how the story started. And she's like, 'Absolutely, we've got to do this.'

JADE ARNOLD: That's amazing.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: It actually was just one of those things that I feel convinced that the story found me and not the other way around.

JADE ARNOLD: What a cool story. I love that. How different was the writing process for 'Escape from Cockatoo Island', given that it was much more historically based? I imagine there was a lot more research involved. So, did this influence your writing process?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Definitely. And you know what? This was probably the longest novel that I'd tackled at that stage. I was still very new to writing full-length manuscripts. And I think that understanding the timeline of the history and what happened to the girls on the island were really good signposts for how to tell the story.

And with each book, it's different. Sometimes you know exactly how it's going to work out. Sometimes you might start off really well. And then for this book, I knew how I wanted it to start, and I actually knew how I wanted it to end. I had to do a lot of research to make sure that that was plausible. And then it was the middle bit that actually was the last chunk to fall into place.

But always when you're trying to tell a historical story, you have to be aware of the facts but also have to have a bit of courage or fearlessness to step into owning your character and putting them in a place that potentially was real. We'll never really know what it was like, but it does have to be realistic. And I knew that it was essential that at the end of this story, we had something positive happen because there were very many cases of girls on this island where there weren't positive things that happened to them.

And that's why the title is called 'Escape from Cockatoo Island' because our main character-- and actually another character in the book-- they escape from Cockatoo Island in the most incredible way. And there are recorded entries of some people getting off Cockatoo Island, but they were not necessarily children. And there are some astonishing things that I found out during the research period. But it took me a good, long period, Jade. It took me more than a couple of years to research and get it right.

JADE ARNOLD: That sounds intense, but it also sounds like a lovely fusion between, I guess, imagination and historical facts, and making those 2 mesh seamlessly together.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yes. It was absolutely a crazy thing to try and do, but I'm glad I did it.

JADE ARNOLD: Let's return again to our 'between the bookshelves' chat. Our voracious reader has now finished 'Escape from Cockatoo Island' and is searching for their next read.

What would you suggest that they try next?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: There are so many in that series that I think students would love, and I'll recommend a couple. There's 'The Bombing of Darwin' by Alan Tucker, and that's also in the 'My Australian Story' series. And the other one that had a big impact on me was called 'Who Am I? The Diary of Mary Talence', and that's by Dr Anita Heiss.

And that's a really interesting story as well. It's a First Nations story perspective on the series that I actually personally learned a lot through that particular book. And I also had the privilege of meeting Anita and talking to her about that book when it came out. So, I'd recommend starting with those 2, but there's plenty in the series.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah, so much to dive into. But it's good to know that that's a really good dive-in point for readers who really liked that book.

For our next 'between the bookshelves' pitch, let's move on to a series that our primary school teacher librarians would probably be very familiar with, the 'Ella and Olivia' series. And they feature on the K to 2 booklist. And what are these books about? And who do you think would enjoy them?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: All right. So, Jade, there's a real sister thread running through here. Ella and Olivia-- Ella is 7 years old; Olivia is 5 and 1/2. They're frozen in time. Their little brother Max is 2. He's still learning to talk 38 books later, and that's exactly where we like to keep our little brothers.

[laughter]

They're there at the side of the action. But this is really the sisters' story. So, these books really have simple text, active voice. They're designed for beginning readers to develop confidence in reading by themselves. I get lots and lots of letters from readers and their parents saying, 'Hey, we've just finished this one,' or 'We love this one and then we've put this one down and then we've gone on to the next one.'

So, that's why there's also so many spinoff series of 'Ella and Olivia' because there's something for every age group, all the way down to the 'Meet Ella' series, all the way up to 'Ella at Eden' when she's in high school. And there's something for everyone in these characters, and they're just universally loved. So, writing chapter books for this age, I often put myself back in the mindset of being a kid.

And my little sister, who is kind of the Olivia in this series-- and it's the adventures they get up to, but they kind of can't do things without each other. In the first few 'Ella and Olivia's, they were mainly Ella's stories, but then I was like, no, Olivia needs to find her voice. And so, you'll find now in the stories that both sisters have to do things together to take the story forward and also to find a resolution to whatever crazy problem has befallen them in this particular story.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing. I imagine it's actually kind of tricky to write a chapter book for the 5 to 7-year-old age group. So many of the books targeted at this age group are actually picture books, and obviously they rely very heavily on the interplay with the images to be able to create meaning and to draw readers in. So, what considerations do you need to make when you're writing a chapter book for this age group?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Well, look, the amazing thing is that my illustrator, Danielle McDonald, and I have done so many books together now that we almost-- when I write them, I do have considerations for where the illustrations are going to go, and I know almost instinctively how she's going to depict that. But when you're a writer, you're really lucky because you have an editor or a publisher in the middle of this process that helps you organise the story into how it's going to be delivered through the words and through the images.

So, with these books, they're 2,500 words long. Each book is 2,500 words long with five 500-word chapters. And so, you know that something's got to happen in each of those chapters, rising up to the tension, almost starting from the very beginning of the story. And then it has to be resolved by the end of the book.

And I would say that Danielle and I are fairly in sync. And she knows she's captured the essence of the characters because she brought them to life. When I think of them now, they're the illustrations. So, she's brought them to life, and she's an absolute master.

And she's also a very busy lady because there's just so many books to illustrate in this series. So, yeah, she's extremely busy. But even though we don't live in the same city, we don't see each other a lot, we're always in sync with what we're doing. And she's just brilliant.

JADE ARNOLD: Awesome. So, it sounds like very much key structure and a good illustrator makes it easy to write for this age group.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Well, I mean, you're also very lucky. You have wonderful publishers in the middle of it all that make it happen.

JADE ARNOLD: Of course. So, let's assume our teacher librarian or PRC coordinator is standing between the bookshelves with our young reader, and they've absolutely devoured the 'Ella and Olivia' series. What books do you think they should move on to next?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: There's a few different series that I love that are a little bit different to 'Ella and Olivia'. Obviously, there's the 'Billie B Brown' series, which everybody loves and knows. And Sally Rippin, our Children's Laureate, is incredible. I really love those books because they have a little bit of mystery in them as well.

I also love the 'Ratbag' series from Tim Harris. If you want something hilarious, read Tim's books. They're just awesome. And I would also recommend 'Frog Squad' by Kate and Jol Temple.

JADE ARNOLD: I love 'Frog Squad'.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: They're so fun.

JADE ARNOLD: They're so funny.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: And not just because I love frogs, but they're so funny. And they're just very funny-- just weird and wonderful, but hilarious. And they just make me laugh out loud. So, there's just a few series.

And actually, I do want to give a little mention to a series because I love dogs, and I know lots of people love dogs. There's a series called 'Willa and Woof' by Jacqueline Harvey, and I would recommend those too.

JADE ARNOLD: Yes, such fantastic recommendations there. And I feel very confident that most, if not all, of those are on the PRC booklists, but they will be confirmed in the show notes. It's so lovely to chat about your books and hear your wonderful recommendations, Yvette.

I'd love now to draw on your experience as a prior Premier's Reading Challenge officer. I'm going to guess that we would have very similar answers for the questions that I'm going to ask you, but you've got such a unique perspective on this because you've run the program, you've written a number of books yourself, and you've taught in the NSW public education system.

So, first of all, why do you think the PRC is an important program both for students and for schools?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Oh, Jade. Well, you know this all too well because you're the officer and you know how wonderful this job is. It's just a real privilege to be in that position. And the Reading Challenge is an incredible program that supports wide reading and supports literacy in our schools. And there are many schools around Australia that do different versions of reading challenges.

But the PRC in NSW is just-- we know it's epic. It's an epic program, and so many students participate in it. And whether the goal is to read as many books as you can, whether the goal is to get a medal or you're aiming for a certificate, it really doesn't matter. The whole idea of it is to read more books and try different books to what you maybe normally would read.

And that's where the roles of our wonderful teachers and teacher librarians come in, because the PRC guides and your role in working with committees to choose the books that go onto the lists is an essential part of making that happen for students and making it easier for them to find these books and to branch out. And as you know, there are thousands of books published every single month in Australia and overseas.

And the fact that you're able to read them and review them and help those choices become easier for younger readers is massive. And to help kids recognise that reading can be powerful by having the signposts along the way and the markers of success is really, really important. And I think anybody that loves reading and is willing to step out of what they normally read and try something new, that can be a really simple act of discovering more joy in your life.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah, absolutely. The memories that I have the most fondness for when I was a high school teacher librarian was the students who would come in and say, I don't read books at all. I haven't read a book since Year 6 when we were forced to-- and getting them to read 5 of their choice books. And for them, that was a huge accomplishment for them.

And it's not always about completing the PRC. It's about taking the time to read and hopefully enjoy those books and keep searching for the types of books that you like or try something new and really fall in love with a book and enjoy that process of reading. So, definitely everything that you said there really resonates. And as you said, I feel so phenomenally lucky to be able to follow in your footsteps and to run this program. It's the best. And then I get to sit here and talk to you on a podcast. How great.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: It's the new iteration of the PRC. How cool? Podcasting wasn't around 10 years ago, really.

JADE ARNOLD: Right? Yeah.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: And it's awesome to see the PRC heading in this direction, and I absolutely can't wait to see who's next on your interview list.

JADE ARNOLD: Thank you. Given your firsthand experience with the program, what advice would you give to a teacher librarian or to a school planning on getting started for the very first time with the PRC?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Gosh, there's so much advice. It is a big program to run, and it can be a busy thing to run at your school. I think the best thing that I would suggest is to reach out to your network of TLs. Your network will help you and give you some feedback on the experience of running the PRC.

And they can always write in and actually get real support from you and your team as well. And I think, don't be afraid. It's actually super rewarding, and there are plenty of people out there who can help you actually work with the program and log the books and work with the students. It doesn't have to be something you tackle entirely on your own.

JADE ARNOLD: And there's no right or wrong way to do it, either. Every school that I have spoken to runs it slightly differently and makes it work for their particular school context. So, I always try and give schools that advice is that you've got to choose what's going to work best for you and also what's going to be sustainable that you can keep up. So, it might not be as crazy and over the top as the school next door, but that doesn't matter because you're still giving students that opportunity in a way that works for your school context.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Yeah, definitely.

JADE ARNOLD: On a similar note, what words of wisdom would you like to share with school coordinators who've been running the program for a number of years?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Oh, I'd personally just love to say thank you so much for doing that.

JADE ARNOLD: I agree, seconded.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Because every time I step into the library now as an author, I see the evidence. I'm in libraries where it's celebrated and it's visible. And even from a really simple display that you might have or the bookshelf stickers that you're using or information that you're working on giving your students, it works. It's amazing.

And I just want to say a big thank you because it makes my appearance in a library just so much more valuable to a student who's doing the PRC. They may have read some of my books. They may have read none of them. That's fine. It's actually the collective act of reading and being part of something together which is actually really exciting.

And I know that when I was starting out in the role a long time ago, Jade, I did all of these deep dives into wondering how this program came to light. And it was through some really inventive, clever people who had actually gone out and looked internationally at what was helping literacy in schools around the world. And they cherry-picked the best of all the programs occurring around the world. There were some amazing models that they used, and I think what we've done in NSW is turned it into our own thing.

And it's got to be definitely one of the biggest in the world. So, yeah, I just want to say thank you very much to everybody who supports the program as a teacher, as a writer, and as somebody who did run it once upon a time, Jade. But I'm just loving what you're doing with the program.

JADE ARNOLD: Thank you. You're absolutely correct. Without all of our amazing school coordinators, we wouldn't have the, I think, 436,000 students doing the PRC every year. It's insane.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: It's huge.

JADE ARNOLD: It's mind-boggling to think about that number of students, but also so exciting to think about the fact that this little-- it feels like a little program on this end.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: It's massive.

JADE ARNOLD: But it's not.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: It's not, Jade. It's huge!

JADE ARNOLD: This program is able to reach so many students and hopefully spark that joy for reading and support their literacy development in such an enjoyable way.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: When I meet adults who are like, I did the Reading Challenge. I love the Reading Challenge. I've still got my medal. And I'm like, good on you. Well done.

JADE ARNOLD: I love those stories.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: I love it, too.

JADE ARNOLD: Now, I imagine you have a pretty good understanding of the Australian children's literature world. With that in mind, if you had any words of wisdom to share with teacher librarians in NSW about what types of books to keep an eye out for when developing their library's collection, what would they be?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Well, there are just so many incredible books coming out every month, from fiction to non-fiction to everything in between. I absolutely love seeing even what's coming out in new formats-- so much to choose from. Obviously, I'm in this incredible world where I get to go to lots of book launches and lots of my friends are releasing things all the time. But it's really interesting to see, category-wise, what people and what kids are reading today.

For instance, poetry and verse novels are fascinating, and I'm so in awe of the people that write them. And like everything from Pip Harry's book 'The Longest Wave' to Kirli Saunders' book 'Bindi', they're, for me, some of the most fascinating new styles of books. I just absolutely love reading them, and they're incredible to read out loud. I think it's just incredible to see young readers' responses to those books as well.

I think in terms of our picture books that particularly we make in Australia, there are so many incredible picture books coming out all the time. And there's a couple that I absolutely love. A friend of mine, an illustrator, Max Hamilton, she's got some beautiful Australian books. I think my favourite one that she's had out recently is called 'Our Home'. And it's just a look at the different styles of home and what we can call home in Australia. And it makes you think about what home is and what home can be.

So, teacher librarians, you get to see what's out there. You're really well placed to see what your students are reading, what they love. Graphic novels are obviously a huge part of it. There's so much movement in the graphic novel world. Lots of people I know are working on series that we'll be starting to see coming out really soon. So, I think there're a few things that I'm quite excited by.

JADE ARNOLD: Amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Now, I feel like an essential question for a podcast where we talk about books is, what are you currently reading? Or what are you excited to dive into next?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Well, I've just finished reading a great new book called 'Neeka and the Missing Key' by Tina Strachan, and it's just a lovely adventure set in a zoo. It's for, I would say, readers 7 or 8-plus, and it's just a good, old-fashioned adventure by somebody who knows a lot about this world. And it's got gorgeous illustrations in it. I really enjoyed that book.

What am I excited to dive into next? Well, there are a few different friends, as I alluded to, that are working on various graphic novel series, which I can't reveal too much about, but they're hard at work on them. And I can't wait for them to come out. But there's also a few new additions to the 'Ella and Olivia' multiverse that are coming out this year.

So, there is another spinoff series that's coming out that I've been working on with Danielle McDonald again, which will be heading out. And there's a new space that I've been exploring, which is the world of phonics readers with Ella. And that series is called 'Ella's World', too. So, they're what I'm working on, and there's some thoughts on what I'm looking forward to.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah. Well, hopefully in the next 6 to 12 months, we'll have a bit more of an idea of that. And we'll have to check back in, and maybe they'll find their way onto the PRC booklists. I hope so-- fingers crossed.

One of the projects you've worked on while part of the Technology 4 Learning team has been the 'Everyone's an Author' resource. Can you tell us where we can find this resource, and what teachers and students can expect to get out of it?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Well, this was a really fun one to work on, I can't lie. It involved a lot of wonderful authors from Australia who basically decided to share some wisdom with students. You can find it online. All you have to do is google 'Everyone's an Author', and you'll find it. It's pretty easy, but it's got so many cool layers to it.

So, there's a video from 9 different authors who basically talk about an aspect of writing. I think the one that I talk about is about building your characters and developing your characters. Tim Harris, who I mentioned before, he talks a lot about dialogue. Jackie French talks a lot about place. Kirli Saunders talks a lot about landscape and imagery and how she works that into her poetry and her writing.

And the cool thing is there's a fun video that's a few minutes long that you can watch, and then there are a whole bunch of resources to actually get started with your writing. I know that we're revamping them at the moment, and they're available. And you can easily find them and just anyone in Australia can find them. So, they're available on the Technology 4 Learning website or if you just google it.

JADE ARNOLD: That's so awesome. And I think definitely such a valuable resource for teacher librarians or English teachers or any teacher who's trying to boost their students' writing ability and confidence. But also, what a great resource to work with your students and then give them the opportunity to go and read those authors' works as part of the Premier's Reading Challenge, where they can see those features in those authors' writings and see how intentional authors are with what they're saying and what it is that makes one of those stories that really stick with us. So, what a fantastic read.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: I learned heaps.

JADE ARNOLD: Yeah.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: I learned heaps. It was great because in the video, Jackie is standing in a dry creek bed looking around at the bush, as only Jackie French could do.

JADE ARNOLD: Absolutely.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: And she's talking about place and how it impacts on her writing. And she's just a powerhouse, so any tips she can give me is a massive amount of help.

JADE ARNOLD: Absolutely. While we're on the topic of authors, my last question for you is about author visits. Do you ever visit schools in NSW? And if so, how can teachers get in touch with you?

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: I definitely do. You can just email me through my website. I haven't done them for a while, but this year I'm really excited to get back into schools, so just drop me a line.

JADE ARNOLD: That's really exciting. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Yvette. It has been an absolute pleasure talking to you about your books, about the NSW Premier's Reading Challenge, and about your work with the T4L team. And I am confident that this chat has inspired PRC coordinators all across NSW, both with how to run the PRC and how to talk about your books with our aspiring readers.

YVETTE POSHOGLIAN: Oh, thank you so much, Jade. And congratulations on a wonderful program that just, under your custodianship, is just going from strength to strength. Thanks for having me.

JADE ARNOLD: Thank you, Yvette.

[theme music - Matt Ottley, 'Dance of the Jellyfish']

Thanks for tuning in to 'Between the bookshelves'.

This podcast is produced by the Arts Unit of the NSW Department of Education as part of the 'Listen @ The Arts Unit' series. For more information about our programs, to access our show notes, or to listen to other podcasts, explore our website at artsunit.nsw.edu.au.

For more information about the NSW Premier's Reading Challenge, including our booklists, visit premiersreadingchallenge.nsw.au.

Theme music, 'Dance of the Jellyfish', composed by Matt Ottley. Copyright, Matt Ottley, 2024. Reproduced and communicated with permission.

Background music licensed by Envato Elements.

Copyright, State of NSW, Department of Education, 2025.