Video transcript
Insights into immersive choral music installations with Sxip Shirey

SXIP SHIREY: 'The Gauntlet' was inspired by growing up with lots of tree frogs and crickets around me and having this constant chorus of natural sound and bands of natural sound, like one animal is going to sing in this band, another is going to sing in this band of sound. And so, these layers of sound-- and I had a consummate young experience where I was out in the woods with my dad. And there was a little stream. And he said, Skip, listen. The stream is harmonising with itself. And it was burbling at different pitches. And my brain went woo!

And being in the city, you're in a gauntlet all the time because things are linear. So you get that sense there's sounds on this side and there's sounds on this side. So those were the inspirations.

And then I got very interested in what if there was a composition that if you didn't move, it wouldn't change? So that was the real initial. And I thought, oh, maybe you could have a dance club that has very directional speakers on the ceiling. So if you stand in one place, you're standing in one loop. But as soon as you move, it starts to change. Then I was thinking, well, that requires a lot of money. And I don't do that. I mean, I don't know how to do that. I'm like, how could I do it with humans?

And so the initial gauntlet we did was all hocketing. It was hocketing in pairs. And we took language that we'd overheard in the streets in New York and had people hocket in pairs that language. And we did this on the Highline, which is an elevated park in New York. And I think we had 24 pairs. And people walked through it, guided by Coco. And they got these snippets of language.

And then I was at-- I teach at Norwegian Theatre Academy. And she had asked me to do a piece. There's a space called Brooklyn--

SUBJECT: Brooklyn Studios for Dance.

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah. And there's a church on the bottom with a great choir, a black, kind of black gospel church, but contemporary music also. And then the-- Merce Cunningham's former assistant had the upstairs. And so this was a celebration of bringing the community together. And she asked me to do a gauntlet going up the stairs. And I thought well how do you do that. And I thought, oh, I saw this picture of people moving a library-- one library to another place, and they were passing books. I thought what if you passed tones. I wonder if that would work.

And so we were in Norway, and I was working with students. And I was doing a big piece for the Fredrikstad's 450th anniversary of the city. Yeah, right. Stone City and things weren't working, and I said, let's try this thing, thinking whatever. And I did it, and my jaw was on the floor. I'm like what. Because all a sudden, I can build a chord instantly, which no one has to look at music instantly, build chords, change chords.

And then I was like, I don't think it'll work with the double rolls, and the students' like, no, let's do it. And it was one of those things that I was like, this is so simple. I've been doing improv choirs for 20 years. I can't believe I never came up with this. I can't believe it's just some kind of boring Theatre game that people already do.

So it's exciting. It's a new-- and so we use-- in the gauntlet we use hocketing. We use passing tones and phrases. We use the labyrinth. We do a circle gauntlet and--

COCO KAROL: And all of these things, I think the theme is really that a lot of the techniques come from their functionality and what I was talking to the students about is this idea of the choreography of need or these things where what Sxip was just saying where it comes from the functionality of actually how to get from the downstairs to the upstairs. And a lot of the way that things emerge is having a function and a purpose and a need is--

SXIP SHIREY: And the need is the needer. So rather than a tempo defining it is how long does it take to pass a tone from here to here. How long does that take? And so the social interaction is the tempo.

Right now is everyone stand up. And I-- do any of you lead vocal warm ups?

AUDIENCE: Start right from the top down.

SXIP SHIREY: Go.

AUDIENCE: With a lip trill.

[trilling]

SXIP SHIREY: I want you guys use your arms while you're doing this, and there's a reason for this.

[trilling]

Let's go back down.

[trilling]

Again.

[trilling]

Another vocal warm up. Anyone. It can be you again. We'll do a classic.

(SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow. mm.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Yellow. That's a (VOCALISING).

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow. Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Uh, uh.

ALL: (SINGING) Yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow.

SXIP SHIREY: Great. One more, one more-- that one. Give me-- I always love getting this from someone else. I just want one more vocal warm-up that you've done, anyone. What is it?

AUDIENCE: You could put any words to it you want. But it's just melodies--

(SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: That's great. Here we go. With 'doo'.

(SINGING) Doo.

ALL: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING)Ooh.

ALL: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Doo, doo.

ALL: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo--

SXIP SHIREY: I want you to use your hands with me.

ALL: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Hmm-hmm.

ALL: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Hmm, doo.

ALL: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

COCO KAROL: So this warm up comes a little bit from qigong. And it's something that I still use to warm myself up before performances. Because I find that it's one of the most effective things in getting my whole body circulation going. And also, there's some whimsical imagery that I quite like, which is like-- ideokinesis uses this, too.

So it's like an image. You can say, move your hand. But if you say, like, silk hand, you'll move it quite differently. It's just that small, little image. So I quite like qigong, because it uses some of that whimsical imagery.

So let's, first, begin. Close the eyes. Bend the knees, slightly, like clouds in the knees, clouds in the knees. And just let the clouds in the knees bounce a little bit, up and down, taking a deep breath in, and letting out one hum, hiss howler sigh.

ALL: Mm.

COCO KAROL: And let the movement of the bouncing up and down affect the voice. Inhale-- hum, hiss howler sigh.

ALL: Ha.

COCO KAROL: Inhale-- hum, hiss howler sigh.

ALL: Huh.

COCO KAROL: One more-- inhale.

ALL: Shh.

COCO KAROL: Gently float the eyes open. And then let the bouncing increase a little bit, so it's like shaking the tree. So letting-- the image I like for this one is like you're letting the flesh shake off the bone. So really feel it.

SXIP SHIREY: You're a zombie.

COCO KAROL: Keep your heels and toes connected to the ground, like you're riding a horse. And imagine the bones just loosening up in the body. Imagine the way that the breath is moving through the space of the loosened bones. In through the nose-- breathing in through the nose, out through the mouth, and then letting it get a little more vigorous.

You're not-- you're mostly adults. But I like to call this, like, an adult temper tantrum. [vocalising] Yeah. Right?

And then just shifting the weight side to side. And then find someone, like I'll find Sxip and get into a little qigong boxing match.

[laughter]

SXIP SHIREY: But don't hit each other.

COCO KAROL: No, no actual contact, but just a little qigong boxing match.

SXIP SHIREY: Do it with them.

COCO KAROL: OK.

SXIP SHIREY: I'll do it with you, too.

COCO KAROL: And letting it increase for 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And pause. Hang your wrists and your elbows. Bend the knees, again. Just drape the flesh on the bones.

Close the eyes and feel all the energy that you've created in the body. Here I am, breathing. Here I am, feeling the soles of my feet, crown of my head. No big deal, just breath.

Take a deep breath in. As you exhale, keep the eyes closed. Bow the chin to the chest. As you inhale, lift the chin and float the eyes open, coming back into the light in the room.

Spreading water out at the hips, taking two bowls of water, lifting them up, inhale, pouring the water over your head. If you want to come even lower, you can widen the feet, coming all the way down, scooping up the bowls of water, piercing the clouds with your head.

Place your dominant hand, and then your non-dominant hand. Bring the feet right underneath you. Close the eyes. And let yourself sway, like bamboo in the wind. Surprise yourself a little bit with which direction the wind is coming from.

No big deal, just breath, just space, light, hearing the sounds from outside, hearing the sounds from inside.

SXIP SHIREY: So what I'm doing, especially with younger people, is, like, you have permission to laugh. And you have permission to think I'm a goofball. But walk around and look at each other.

So it's just language, actually, that's kind of--

COCO KAROL: Like, not trying to change their--

SXIP SHIREY: I'm not trying to change them.

COCO KAROL: --feelings, or--

SXIP SHIREY: I want them to do the physical activity. If you're doing it, you're doing it. So that's where that's coming from.

COCO KAROL: And often, the arts-- and the things that we do as artists-- can be a microcosm for radical action outward into the world. And so just looking at someone, just really seeing them and just being seen-- in the process of the gauntlet, or in the process of the work-- is one of those things, I think. Or just how you listen, or how you be, and how you are.

And so with nervousness, and all of that-- especially working with young people.

SXIP SHIREY: Because you want to stop them having conversations with themselves.

COCO KAROL: Yeah. Oh, when I teach--

SXIP SHIREY: You want this to stop. You know, so you go that's OK. Just put it out, you know.

COCO KAROL: When I'm teaching movement, oftentimes, I'll bring students up to a speed, a tempo, where we're moving faster than the speed of judgement, is what I say to them. Because if you're moving so fast, you actually don't have time for the complete sentence of judgement.

Just take a walk around the room and start to see people. You can let your hands go. And just really look at people in their eyes and their faces. And notice if you get a nervous smile. Or notice how you're seeing and being seen.

So see and be seen.

SXIP SHIREY: You can laugh. It's funny.

COCO KAROL: Yeah, seeing and being seen. One of the techniques that Sxip uses for the gauntlet that we're doing at the Sydney Opera House is that the singers are actually passing the music to each other. And you have to really see each other. And you have to actually listen to each other. And it's a face to face encounter.

And if you're uncomfortable with seeing and being seen, it affects the music.

SXIP SHIREY: But it's OK.

COCO KAROL: But it's OK.

SXIP SHIREY: If you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to get rid of it. You can just laugh at it, because it's funny.

COCO KAROL: Exactly. So taking another three breaths to come back into your configuration, in your circle. And I'll hand it back to Sxip.

SXIP SHIREY: It teaches deep listening. Like, it really does. That's what it is. They really have to listen. And they have to be socially aware of each other.

And especially-- a lot of performers, adults-- when I work with my students, I'm like, who is your audience? Who are you actually communicating to? Are you indicating to history, to yourselves, to your perceived ideal of what this is?

So I'm trying to get them to go-- especially in a time of screens-- this is a person, here. And you're communicating with them. So the gauntlet, by its nature, will not work if they're not listening, and will not work if they can't socially communicate with each other.

And it's interesting, how many sounds are in our environment. Like, there's always some kind of-- because we live in modern times, contemporary times-- there's always a white noise hum in every room that we ignore. There's hisses. There's low frequencies. There's tones. And we-- to us, we'll go it's silence. It's not actually silence.

So for one moment, I want you guys to get in a circle around me. We're all going to be in a circle. And it looks like a natural circle. And now I want us to shut-- I want you to take a deep breath with me.

To be a good musician, you have to listen. Another breath-- every tone has these other tones, these other little textures in it. So what we're going to do is take another breath and shut our eyes. And I want you to really listen to what's around you.

First, there's going to be the obvious thing. We're going to hear the children. But what I want you to do is try to hear the highest tone you can hear in the room.

Try to hear the lowest tone. What's the lowest thing you can hear in that ambient sound around you? There is a kind of a lower mid-range hum that, I think, is from the traffic. Raise your hand, if you can hear that. Oh, good. Put your hands down.

It's hard, because the kids are making so much noise. But I can almost sing the tone of it. But right with those cars, there's another kind of white noise sort of tone. I'm not sure if it's the cars, or the air conditioning, or the kind of unit in the building. Raise your hand, if you can hear that.

All right. Here's the question-- and I don't know. This may not exist, because I have older ears than you. Can anyone in this room hear a really high tone? That's not so bad. I can't hear, either.

All right. Open your eyes. Here's the game we're going to play right now. I want you to imagine that in the centre of us, right now, there's an egg, right? It's a big egg. And it has these coloured bands in it. And at the bottom of the egg, it's a dark, almost black to blue. And it gets kind of purple, red, green, up to yellow, to white. Right?

And when I point at you, I want you to step forward and sing me that band of the egg. Right? So if it's yellow, sing yellow. I can sound like [vocalising]. But in the end, we're all going to be in there. We're going to be set. We're going to be all singing at the same time.

But we're going to choose the low, low band, the high band. And go. Do it. Choose a band and sing it. You point.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Keep that going. Choose a band and sing it.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Nice chord. Choose a band and sing it. Yeah.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Listen to that chord, guys. Nice chord. Choose a band.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Open your mouth to an ah. Go.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ah. Ah.

SXIP SHIREY: Go back to a 'mm' and keep going.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Nice choice. Open your mouth to an ah.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ah.

SXIP SHIREY: Louder.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah.

SXIP SHIREY: So nice. Back to 'mms.'

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Make space for people. Let them get in there tight. Back up a little, if you have to. Choose one.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: I like that choice. Ah, here we go.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ah. Ah. Ah.

SXIP SHIREY: Good. Go.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Mm.

SXIP SHIREY: Someone choose some-- go down there. Choose a band. Make room for people. Spread out, if you need to. Go in.

That's good-- to ah.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ah. Ah. Ah.

SXIP SHIREY: Lower the pitch when I-- actually, just do the pitch. Here we go.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ah.

SXIP SHIREY: Good job. All right. I could go do a whole-- down this path. But I want to get to the gauntlet stuff. I just-- I'm doing this because I just want you guys to get used to hearing each other, and just get a sense of how quick things can be.

Here's what I'm going to do. We're going-- I'm going to pass you the tone. All right? I'm going to sing the tone. And I want everyone to hold out their hand, like this. And the [vocalising], that's going be my tone.

But you sing the tone with me. And pretend it's a ball. It's a yellow ball. And it has weight and heat.

And here we go. It's like Harry Potter, or something. Here we go.

(SINGING) Hoo.

Do it with me. Here we go.

ALL: (SINGING) Hoo.

SXIP SHIREY: Let it go. Bring your hands together and hold that tone.

ALL: (SINGING) Hoo.

SXIP SHIREY: Let it go. Hands together and hold that tone.

ALL: (SINGING) Hoo.

SXIP SHIREY: So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pass you the tone. And you're going to take it from me. I'm going to go [vocalising]. And what you're going to do is this-- [vocalising] and pass it to him. You going to pass the tone around the room.

When you're not holding it, you don't sing it. So it is a physical object. So here we go.

(SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Let it fade out.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Great.

COCO KAROL: What if you were to also imagine that you have to listen to the person giving it to you, in order to hear it? Like, if you didn't hear Sxip do it, originally, that you actually were receiving it from the person giving it to you.

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah, that's good.

(SINGING) Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

Here we go.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Do it.

(SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Good job.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh--

SXIP SHIREY: So let's see what happens when we feed that to-- I call this passing tones. So--

(SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Bum.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: So the way you're getting that is these series of stacked seconds. So we're going to do this, instead, right now. To illustrate at this--

(SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

I want you to go, 'doo,' but hold the note. So--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: Again?

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Doo, [vocalising] doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: Over here--

(SINGING) Doo.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: That's a beautiful chord. So-- [vocalising].

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Doo.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Doo.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: Nice. Nice. Nice pitch, guys.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

SXIP SHIREY: Ah! Bravo. That was gorgeous. Again, it's how simple things can become complex things.

And if you sing--

(SINGING) water,

--it's self-sustaining. I can-- and I call it music you can hold. Like, you hear it-- [vocalising], music you get hold. You know, and so this is based on those components that can be physicalized. And like, again, the choreography of need--

COCO KAROL: Yeah. I really respond to a lot of Sxip's work, and compositions, and object-oriented composition, and task things. Because--

SXIP SHIREY: And that's another thing. I literally compose with a table full of objects. So this kind of thing that we're doing with sound now really comes out of that.

COCO KAROL: I kind of call this sort of thing the choreography of need, or the gestures of need, in this case. Because you actually are using your hands to help you communicate. And then you're also giving that information to someone else.

And so if it's not helping you, and it's just gratuitous.

SXIP SHIREY: It doesn't work.

COCO KAROL: It doesn't work.

SXIP SHIREY: You're telling the person what the notes are.

COCO KAROL: So use it. Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: Especially when you're performing this piece, and it's a bunch of people singing at once-- and maybe you're singing over there. And there's people crossing. This is actually useful.

COCO KAROL: And it's so powerful to watch things that are actually being used-- really and truly-- rather than just, I'm doing this for a reason that might be abstract and not known. But actually like, I need to do this to give it to you. It's even more beautiful to watch, I think.

SXIP SHIREY: I'm going to sing you a phrase. And I want you to sing it back. And the phrase is--

(SINGING) sing me a lullaby, as underwater.

Here we go.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby, as underwater.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

Here we go.

(SINGING) Sing--

See? The choreography of need.

[laughter]

(SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a, sing me a, sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) --lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a lullaby. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) --lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby. Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a, lullaby. Ooh. Sing me a, sing me a lullaby. Sing me a, sing me a lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Sing me a-- ooh. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, ooh--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) --lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby. Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Lullaby. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water. Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water. Water. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Sing me a-- water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water. Water. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) As underwater.

(SINGING) Sing me a, ooh, sing me a, sing me a,

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) As underwater.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) As underwater. Sing me a-- ooh. Sing me a lullaby. Sing me a lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) As underwater. Sing me a lullaby. Water. Sing me a lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby, as underwater. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: [inaudible]

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) --water. Sing m a lullaby. Water. Sing me a lullaby, as underwater. Sing me a lullaby, as underwater. --as underwater. Ooh-- as underwater. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Beautiful, guys. That's gorgeous.

COCO KAROL: Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: The gauntlet is a bunch of things. But it's two choirs facing each other on stools, exchanging tones and phrases, over the top of the head of the audience, as they walk through. And I'm on one end, feeding the tones and phrases, as the composer, into it.

COCO KAROL: And I'm dancing through it, guiding the audience through.

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah.

COCO KAROL: And a lot of the language comes from--

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah. I realise I'm just a silly--

COCO KAROL: You just jumped right in. But that's OK. But one of the most beautiful things about this technique, to me, is that the human body, and the gesture of the movement from passing, is the metre. You create the metre of the piece by how long it takes you to give someone the next tone.

SXIP SHIREY: Meaning, what controls tempo. But it's not tempo, in the sense like there's an arbitrary tempo god up there saying, 1, 2, 3. So it is.

And in a sense, this is very avant-garde. But it's actually like a folk art form. It's very simple. The rules are simple. And I'm very interested in folk music.

And my friend, when she saw the gauntlet-- she's an amazing singer, Rhiannon Giddens. She wrote to me. She's goes, you know, the gauntlet sounds exactly like Pygmy music, which is the oldest music in Africa.

And she sent it to me. And the hairs went-- all on the back of my neck. It totally does.

If you have an orchestra, you want the instruments that sound different. We want the oboes to sound a certain way. (DROPPING VOICE) And we want the tuba to sound a certain way. (SOFTENING VOICE) And we want the strings to sound a certain way.

In a choir, you don't go, all right, we need a bunch of people that sing like Tom Waits. We need a bunch of people to have an English reedy boy band. And we want some deep, deep, African-American spirit.

Like, you don't do that. Because you can't-- everyone's voice is different. So it's this thing. And it's like, we actually want you all to sound the same, but sing as a group. So you don't have that timbre thing.

So what happens in this is you suddenly hear everyone's timbre. And in their timbre is their life experience. And so as I said, as she mentioned, it collapses the choir back into individuals.

And there is no other situation that we're in-- when people sing duets-- because you're in a situation where you're in between a social exchange that's musical. But a duet is actually both. Both people are singing out to the audience.

It's not often. Maybe in, like, jazz and dixieland-- but it's not, this isn't-- you're walking through a very personal experience.

INTERVIEWER: You're literally in the middle of it.

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah. But that, we get with conversation. You know, oh we're talking-- I'm overhearing this talking. But you don't-- oh, I was overhearing the singing between two people.

I mean, there are moments-- a child singing with his mum. But this is a little rarefied, I think. And then it's interesting, because they're on stools. So it puts you back into the child body. You might not literally realise that, where you're looking up at the adult. And cool things are happening.

So you're submerged in a situation that you're part of. And you're allowed to be excited about it, if that makes any sense.

COCO KAROL: You call it, sometimes, like that it's like a folk form, in some way.

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah. I think it's-- my goal is, I want to write a great composition for the gauntlet. But right now, it's a folk music form. Maybe it's best that way. And maybe it becomes a pop music form. I think it's starting to push that. Because it's taking a while.

I thought you could sing any song into it, and it would be cool. It's not. It actually needs (CHANGING PITCH) things that go like this to make it work.

And of course, there could be things where I'm building chords that move to chords, that move to chords. But I'm not at that point. So in some ways, I think I've created a really, really ambitious folk music form.

COCO KAROL: So you should be with that partner across from you. Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: That's one way to do it. So yeah-- stools across, stools across.

COCO KAROL: So you two are across.

SXIP SHIREY: Move it down.

COCO KAROL: You two are across.

SXIP SHIREY: Stools across-- let me get rid of this. There we go-- geometry.

COCO KAROL: Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: All right. So what we're going to do is I'm going to feed tones, syllables, or gestural phrases. And then it's going to be so hard. If I was working with you guys for real, make you guys use your arms.

But you need to, now-- you need to communicate with that person across from you. Now, it is a need. Because if you don't show them what you're singing, they may not hear you. Right?

So you're going to sing to him. You're going to sing to her. So you're not singing to the person-- this side sings to the person to the right of the person across from them. The side sings to the left.

COCO KAROL: So you're singing in diagonal.

SXIP SHIREY: So you're catching--

COCO KAROL: And you will just sing out to me.

SXIP SHIREY: And this is the people on the end. This is my favourite role. It's like when we've done it, we did it in a church. And the people on the end were-- the direction of the choir-- they sang out to the church. It was gorgeous, very nice.

COCO KAROL: And you can make up a story, too.

SXIP SHIREY: You can make it a story. But you're gifting this sound to that. And so we're going to practise that. And then we'll have who's ever in the room to walk through the gauntlet. Because that's how this is actually experienced by the audience. They walk through it.

So let's just try it with tones. Everyone on their stools. You are now giants.

(SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Actually, guys, reach more.

COCO KAROL: Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: I want to see that exchange of arms across--

COCO KAROL: People, I'll walk through, so you can get a sense. But you have to not hit me in the head. So the reach is kind of up and over.

And since this is-- in the language, it's about water. You're also kind of the waves, as underwater. So I'm under the water of the lullaby that you're singing to me.

AUDIENCE: That sounds really nice.

COCO KAROL: Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah.

(SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water. Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water.

SXIP SHIREY: Keep going guys.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: That's beautiful.

COCO KAROL: It's so beautiful.

SXIP SHIREY: Gorgeous, guys. It's almost easier this way, right? Why is that?

COCO KAROL: It's real.

SXIP SHIREY: It's real, like the gesture. Suddenly, it's like-- it's not like some guy saying, hey. Wave your hands in the air. It's like, actually, I have to communicate with you.

This is an experiment. It's a-- I don't know anybody else doing this kind of thing. And each time we do it, we discover the different. The thing that's beautiful about this is old people and children love it. Right? They love it.

So I always feel if I can do (DEEPENS VOICE) experimental, avant-garde, and new things-- but old people and children love it. Then that's the right direction.

So you guys are doing great. It's interesting to me, too, that we got in the stools. And all of a sudden--

COCO KAROL: Yeah.

SXIP SHIREY: It's, you know--

COCO KAROL: It's like when you put-- so I danced in a ballet company for many years. And once I put point shoes on my feet, it changes the whole rest of my body. Or, if you ever have worn high heels, you change. And so getting up on the stools changes your-- and also the need, and what happens in the--

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah, it's interesting.

COCO KAROL: And if you can make it to the gauntlet at the Sydney Opera House, some of the language that will be passed through will come from people that I've interviewed from the local community, and from some of the choir singers, themselves.

So I do something called movement interviews. And so I would move with you and ask a poetic line of questioning with my background as a dancer, and also into something that I call embodied inquiry. Which is kind of this idea that, when we go through the world, and we experience the world, we experience the world with our whole body. And we're making meaning with our whole physical experience-- like what you see, what you smell, what you taste. And all of these things are happening to make meaning of the experience.

And so when interviewing people, I wanted to kind of foreground the physical experience, and be able to almost-- as if it were that I was asking questions directly to the physical experience. And so in order to have physical memories and that visceral language, I found that moving with people really works quite well.

And this-- actually, the first movement interview that I did was with an artist that I collaborate with, named Lindsay Abromaitis-Smith. And she has ALS, and is in a wheelchair. So in fact, questions to her changing body-- as an artist, going through this disease that she has.

And one of the first things she said in that interview was, your feet are so beautifully walked on. And she said this to me from her wheelchair. And suddenly, my physical experience of my own body, and a knowledge of hers, was so instantaneous.

And so as with the gauntlet, and with Sxip's work, as you're moving through, and you're having a physical experience as an audience member, moving through this immersive choir, that also having this language passing and moving through you, to be quite physical--

SXIP SHIREY: And it feels like it's literally moving through you. That's the difference. It's a very three--

COCO KAROL: Yeah. And then also, that Sxip says this beautiful thing, which is about-- that the gauntlet is a way that it collapses the choir back down to the individual. And so it's the individual of the voices you hear. But then my job, also, with this movement interviews and the stories, is about not just collapsing back down to the individual, in terms of the tone of their voice, but also their personal narratives.

And so for the gauntlet for the Sydney Opera House, the personal narratives that we chose to cull language from, and that I chose to interview people from, came from the subject matter of the festival, which is the Antidote Festival, which is about change makers and social justice work. And so Olivia Ansell over at the Opera House curated people for me to interview that fell into that.

SXIP SHIREY: Fascinating people.

COCO KAROL: Yeah. And so their stories really become the narratives that you walk through.

SXIP SHIREY: And it's tricky. Because I can't-- some of the interviews, I'm like, this is a book. This is its own piece. This is its own opera.

So you kind of have to go in it with a sense of a haiku. Like, what's the line in it? Like what she said-- so you're looking for really vibrant lines. And with that, I'm trying to write melodies that you can't get out of your head.

COCO KAROL: So we can start with the end pair walks through. And then you come back up on your stool. And then you guys can walk through.

SXIP SHIREY: This is good. Because we've needed to figure this out.

COCO KAROL: Yeah. And also-- so then what would happen is, if the person that you're singing to walks away, you then reach to the person who's beyond them.

SXIP SHIREY: That sounds good. Yeah.

COCO KAROL: Cool.

SXIP SHIREY: And sing me a lullaby as underwater comes from those-- her movement interviews.

(SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, singe me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a-- ooh. Sing me a, sing me--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: Send them through, again.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

COCO KAROL: Go through, again.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a-- ooh. Sing me a, sing me a-- ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a-- ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a-- ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Lullaby, lullaby--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Lullaby. Ooh. Lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh, lullaby. Lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Lullaby. Lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Lullaby. Lullaby. Lullaby

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Lullaby. Lullaby. Lullaby. Lullaby. Lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Lullaby. Ooh. Ooh, lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a, sing me a, sing me a, sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Sing me a-- ooh. Ooh. Sing me a-- ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a--

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) --lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a--

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Sing me a lullaby.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) --lullaby. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Water. Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Water.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Water.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Water. Ooh. Ooh.

SXIP SHIREY: (SINGING) Ooh.

AUDIENCE: (SINGING) Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh. Ooh.

[snapping]

SXIP SHIREY: Yay.

[applause]

Good job, guys.

COCO KAROL: What were some of your experiences, walking through?

SXIP SHIREY: We could step off.

COCO KAROL: Yeah. We can step off the stools.

SXIP SHIREY: Actually, kind of get in the circle. Because I want to hear you all. I'm very curious. And honestly, these aren't rhetorical questions. It's always really interesting to hear what people say. Because-- you were saying?

AUDIENCE: Angelic. It feels angelic.

SXIP SHIREY: And it's partially angelic because I'm singing all in major triads. It could be non-angelic, too, but-- especially when other people just do-- but I wanted to keep it in a place that it feels easy for you to move. But it is angelic. It is a-- yeah, sorry.

AUDIENCE: The second time coming through, I closed my eyes.

SXIP SHIREY: Yes?

AUDIENCE: And I couldn't-- it was really magical. I couldn't quite tell where the sound was coming from. It sounded like everywhere. [inaudible]

SXIP SHIREY: That's awesome.

AUDIENCE: The blend of all the different sounds and notes are really pretty.

SXIP SHIREY: Right.

AUDIENCE: I don't know if it was especially because I was on the end. But I find it really interesting how the sounds kind of got lost and faded into the big sound ball.

SXIP SHIREY: Right. The sound ball, did you just call it?

AUDIENCE: Yeah. Like, the sound.

SXIP SHIREY: I like the big sound ball. That's good.

AUDIENCE: I noticed it was a good thing, in the end. I noticed a note was changing as it was going--

SXIP SHIREY: Yeah. It'll happen.

AUDIENCE: --through. But it sounded-- it worked.

SXIP SHIREY: And this is going to happen, of course. There's that game, telephone. Right? And I always tell people, this is not a game of telephone. I don't want the note to change. But I'm not going to freak out, if it does.

As long as you tune it back up. Like whatever you've-- like, I don't know what that is. Well, this will sound good. Yeah.

COCO KAROL: And it supports things. I noticed in rehearsal last night, some of the choir members were talking while it was going on. And even the talking somehow became a part of the composition, because it supported any kind of-- yeah.

AUDIENCE: And it kind of reminded me of when you go to the aquarium.

SXIP SHIREY: Yes.

AUDIENCE: [inaudible] gets like warm water.

SXIP SHIREY: And that's-- this comes from my experience. I grew up in a country with a bunch of chickens, and dogs, and ponies. But hearing the crickets at night-- so this is that. This is a response nature, and also a response to the city.

When you walk through the city, you hear little snippets of conversation. And the first gauntlet, we did in New York City, was about that. We took snippets of conversation. And we had that pass through people.